Your last paragraph seems to assume that “the church” will feel a certain way about gay marriage, but has long ago “ceded its seat on the high horse.” Why do you assume that “the church” (which one, by the way? The one holy small-c catholic and apostolic church? The Lutheran chuch? Protestantism in general? The big-C Catholic church?) opposes gay marriage?

When you declare the battle “lost”, what exactly do you mean? Are you saying that homosexuals shouldn’t marry, due to church teachings, but will probably eventually end up with that right because the church has lost its standing in civil affairs?

By “the church” I always mean the small-’c’ catholic church. Of course there are many in the “the church” who feel the way I do; I am not assuming that all Christians are (or have to be) against gay marriage, at least in a civil sense. I am less optimistic about the prospects for acceptance of gay marriages in church; some will embrace this concept right away, some never will, and many will need some time to figure out how they feel about it. Count me in that latter camp.

But in the meantime, I see no reason to deny the legal benefits and protections of marriage to same-sex couples.

Hear, hear.

And I think you are correct (but I wish you weren’t) about the prospects for the acceptance of gay marriage in the church.

You’d think that if marriage needed defending so badly, they’d enact waiting periods when you get a marriage license. And get rid of no-fault divorce.

And I was utterly floored when the president threw the full weight of his office behind a Constitutional amendment that will divide the country and write discrimination into the Constitution.

Why, Vidiot? Are you that naive? Did you not hear Bush’s state of the union? Do you really think the constitutional amendment is going to “divide the country” any more than the issue is already dividing the country? Considering that a state supreme court and a city mayor have already thrown the issue to the front burner, I’m not surprised at all.

To quote Josh Marshall:

I’m a pretty big small-’c’ conservative on all matters of amending the constitution. In almost all cases it should be reserved for structural revisions to the architecture of the state, not as a means to hardwire policy changes or litter it with silliness about congressional pay raises. But it really is a sad day when we consider using the amendment process to turn back the widening gyre of equality and emancipation which has always been this document’s role in the American state.

(The White House will try to say that this is in response to what is happening in San Francisco. But I don’t think that will pass close scrutiny since, if recollection serves, they started signalling this before that happened.)

The Congressional passage of the proposed amendment is anything but certain. Even a GOP attack dog like Tom DeLay is sounding more measured than the President regarding this. That should tell you something.

Proposing to go to Mars was the same sort of thing — a big splashy headline-grabbing proposal that would deflect attention from Bush’s other problems. I don’t doubt that Bush’s sinking approval ratings (the lowest since the week he took office, according to a Fox News poll) had something to do with this.

To quote Josh Marshall again (he’s just en fuego with this stuff lately):

The support among conservatives has taken some real hits. The White House has decided that the long-predicted rising economy won’t float them through this election. The situation in Iraq looks wobbly and likely to get worse before it gets better. So deprived of the ability to run on his record he’s decided to save his political hide by trying to tear the country apart over a charged and divisive social issue which is being hashed out through the political process in the states.

It’s his dad and the flag burning amendment all over again. Is there really anything that tells you more about a man’s character than this?

This is one of those places where we disagree on a contention but agree on a point. I believe, as a Christian, that gay marriage runs counter to the whole of Scriptural authority, and I cannot support a church that condones such actions. However, you’re mostly right on the debate being over — I tend to think it’s the fourth quarter and the pro gay marriage side is sending in the walk-ons — and I think the church needs to move on and change tack.

I have grown very tired of the assumption in many Christian circles that ours (OK, “theirs”) is the only possible morality in what appears to me to be an officially non-sectarian society.

I think this comes from a confusion between Truth (with a capital T) and morality. As a Christian, moral authority lies in Jesus Christ through the New Testament. This moral authority is Truth — “I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Light. None can come to the Father except through me.” Capital T Truth is a constant by definition. Morality is not a constant, but a variable, and this is because each person’s definition of what a moral good is varies based on nature and nuture. There is a communal sense of morality, but it has more loopholes than tax law. “Do not kill,” but it’s OK to shoot innocents in war because that’s just a consequence of battle. “Do not commit adultery,” but hey, everyone cheats.

One word that keeps popping up whenever I read Paul is “transform.” I keep seeing a Christian church that wants to rule, not transform, and that (of course) worries me greatly.

There’s a difference between being the church being a giant morality clearinghouse (a la the NCAA) and the church being one of many voices in the cultural discourse. The latter guarantees us a place at the table; the former inevitably leads to society telling us, “Get bent.”

Also, Paul had relatively little use for marriage (he was big on virginity, IIRC), but he thought it better than being a fornicator, and said it was better to marry if you absolutely had to. Even if we think of gay sex as a form of fornication (I don’t) wouldn’t Paul’s example be an argument in marriage’s favor?

Of course, Paul also thought the world was going to be ending pretty soon, so we know he didn’t get everything right…